Willie Mullins: 'It's always in your mind we could have a blowout at Cheltenham'

Willie Mullins turns 70 today. This is an interview first published for Racing Post+ subscribers in February 2022, available to read as a free sample to mark the Closutton master's big milestone.

There is still that nauseating feeling deep inside his stomach. The symptoms start to surface around this time every year and, if anything, the cramps have worsened in recent years. The diagnosis? A fear of failure.

"Some year it will happen. We will have a blowout," says Willie Mullins from the sitting room of his home in Closutton. To me or you it might seem about as likely as Italy winning the Six Nations but the man himself is petrified of the prospect.

"It's always in the back of your mind that we could have a blowout at Cheltenham. The year we didn't have a winner until the Thursday I couldn't see one horse who should have won. They just weren't good enough. Everyone else's expectation is going to be your failure if you don't come up with the goods. That leaves a certain dread in your stomach. The week or two before the festival can be tough."

And what about the week itself?

"I probably do dread it, because of the expectation from everyone that we're going to have a half-dozen winners. If you have one or two horses, that's it, they either win or they don't. But when you have a team going over and there is expectation behind that team it's much harder. I'm lucky enough to have horses and owners to put me in that position so you have to take what comes with it and try to enjoy it."

This is a side of Mullins we don't see. Insecurity is not something you come to expect from the most successful trainer in the history of the Cheltenham Festival. He is 78 not out and reaching a century now seems a mere formality. He is going to be at the crease for a long, long time and could smash another six next month. Indeed, six is probably par given he is responsible for 13 favourites at the time of writing.

Did he ever think he would see the day when Ireland would have 23 winners at Cheltenham?

"Never," he replies instantly, before I even get to finish the question.

"When I came out of Cheltenham with my first winner [Tourist Attraction in 1995], I thought I would never be back with another one.

"There were some interesting comments made during the week [from Henrietta Knight, saying Irish trainers were better than their British counterparts] and I think a lot of it is down to our racing structure with better prize-money which is attracting bigger owners who, in turn, can buy horses. We have the investment in Irish racing to buy the type of horses that are needed.

"It's not about the trainers, I think it's about the stock we have. I never dreamed that we'd have the yard we have here.

Willie Mullins organises some of his potential Cheltenham Festival runners at ClosuttonCredit: Patrick McCann (racingpost.com/photos)

"My father was champion trainer and if he had two Grade 1 horses in his yard at the one time that was a good number. The same with any Irish champion trainer at the time. They had one or two Grade 1 horses, because all the horses at that time, the minute they popped their head up, they were bought and on the ferry across to England. So the money and investment went into English racing. Now it's the other way around and it's going into Irish racing. That's the biggest difference, I think."

It has always intrigued me to know how Mullins mixes and matches his owners with his horses. How does Chacun Pour Soi end up with Rich Ricci and Galopin Des Champs with Audrey Turley? Is there a pecking order? Who gets first dibs?

"It's whichever owner wants to buy a horse that minute – it's not like I have ten fellas waiting to buy a horse at any one time," he explains.

"You'd know that certain types of owners like certain types of horses. Certain owners like Irish horses, certain owners like English horses, certain owners like dual-purpose horses. Some guys just want a horse to go to Cheltenham with, or others might want the chance to go to Royal Ascot. And not every owner wants to buy all the time – someone might say to me, 'Get me such and such a horse', and it could be six months or a year before I ring him. That's the way it goes."

There has never been such a spread of big owners in Closutton, and Mullins' seven winners at the Dublin Racing Festival this month were for six different owners.

"Yes, we're very lucky," he says. "The prize-money we have in Ireland is the biggest factor in the whole thing. People want to be involved in Irish racing. Owning a racehorse is about having fun but clients also want to have a chance that their expenses will be paid.

"If we have the prize-money, which we have, to pay for their expenses, and hopefully a few parties as well, that's important. They could put the money into the Flat, but they find jump racing a bit more relaxed."

Mullins was anything but relaxed watching Denman spreadeagling a field in a Wincanton novice hurdle back in November 2005. The Tank had won a point-to-point at Liscarroll for Adrian Maguire and he was wondering how on earth he ended up with Paul Nicholls and not him.

"I rang Tom O'Mahony after he had won his novice hurdle by half the track and I said to him, 'Why didn't you ring me about him?'

"'I did,' he said. 'I told you he was hobdayed and you told me to f*** off!' That's exactly what happened.

"Nowadays I'd buy a hobdayed horse, whereas that time I wouldn't at all. I thought at the time it was hard enough to train sound ones, never mind horses who had been hobdayed. I think hobday operations and all those wind operations have improved hugely over the years.

"That said, I often wonder whether horses need to be operated on. Lots of people do it on horses when they are very young and that could be just immaturity. It's an ongoing debate. Other people think, 'Let's operate on their wind first before we do anything else', but I've always been the slowest to do it. I don't like going at something until you're sure there is no other avenue."

So, there you have it. Willie Mullins turned down Denman.

Denman: Gold Cup hero was turned down by Willie Mullins before heading to Paul Nicholls in EnglandCredit: Mark Cranham (racingpost.com/photos)

"Willie is ultimately his own man," Ruby Walsh told me in an interview around this time last year. "He will seek the advice of several different people but he'll make his own decisions. So then, when it goes wrong, the buck stops with him, not just when things go right."

Is there any truth in such a rumour?

Mullins says: "Sometimes I just have my own mind made up about a horse. I'll still listen to everyone but then I'll say, 'No, let's just go this way.' But I do listen, especially if someone comes up with a good reason why it could be better to go in a certain direction.

"The two different tracks at Cheltenham sometimes sway us to one race or another. I know in a lot of cases then it will depend on which horse my jockey can ride in which race. Obviously he can't ride two horses in the one race so I'll say, 'Right, you ride him in that race and him in the other race and hope for the best.' Whoever can ride makes a big difference to me."

What's it like at declaration time in the office on the Sunday before Cheltenham? "It's mental," Mullins laughs.

He elaborates on the madness: "Usually Patrick [Mullins, his son], David [Casey], Ruby, Paul [Townend] and I would have a good debate about what might go where and why they might go there. The rider's input would be huge. He's got to ride the horse after all. David and Patrick know how they are at home and what might suit. Then there is Ruby's knowledge of Cheltenham, the track itself, that's big. We put the whole lot in and see what comes out.

"The last few years have been better as I have more of a team around me, whereas one time it was just me and Ruby. It's a bit quicker now! We declare a lot earlier nowadays. It's not as bad as it used to be.

"They might be thinking, 'Why would he do that?', and I'd be thinking, 'Why would they be thinking that?' That's the way it is. I often find I'd have things in my own mind and next thing I read in the press that some horse is so obviously going to go for that race and I'm thinking, 'Where did he come up with that?'

"It's probably just a gut feeling I get. Some years I made the right decision and then other years I wonder if I made the wrong decision. You can only go with your own gut feeling or whoever puts up the biggest argument in the place. That's the way it works."

It is put to Mullins that Townend's role as stable jockey, taking over the number one slot from Walsh in 2019, has worked out better than he ever could have envisaged.

"To me Paul was riding as number one jockey way before Ruby retired because Ruby had been out for so long that Paul had been first jockey, even though he wasn't in name. I found it funny that people were saying, 'Now he's the number one'. I was thinking to myself, 'Sure he's more or less number one anyway'. It wasn't something that was new to him. I suppose it did put more pressure on Paul but he took it well. I think Paul is probably best with pressure.

Paul Townend: 'probably best with pressure' says Willie MullinsCredit: Alan Crowhurst (Getty Images)

"He sees the funny side of things as well. When he picked the wrong one two or three times at Punchestown he said to me, 'Jeez, I'm going back to riding second jockey for you!'"

We're outside now. Mullins doesn't take notes on the gallops. He uses his eyes and ears instead of a pen and paper.

"No, I don't take any notes. I try to remember everything and then the likes of David, Patrick and Ruby will remember stuff, and all the riders remember stuff too. I try to keep the same people on the same horses all the time so they know the horses as well, if not better, than I do. They're part of the training as well as the riding. I see the horses going by and, if I'm not happy, we have a quick chat about it. If I'm really not happy then we might change things around."

Absolutely everything is done on instinct.

"You have to look at them. That's why I like to be here every morning. You've got to see them. You'll see whether horses are improving or not to look at. Then, all my staff know what the horse has done over the previous two or three weeks, or they should anyway, and whether they are eating and doing everything right so if I'm worried I just ask them to confirm or deny whatever I'm thinking.

"Then, between chatting to them and listening to what they have to say, I make up my mind on what work they should do. Normally, we try to keep the routine the same. If I'm worried I change something. If a horse runs bad we might change the way we work them afterwards. I get feedback from Paul and all the jockeys and alter things accordingly. It's an ongoing process. We do change things around and before we get to the stage of working them twice around the big gallop we'd have three months of conditioning work put into them.

"Hedgehunter was extraordinary. When he didn't look well, that's when he was at his best. If Hedgehunter looked well he was no good. He looked like a greyhound when he was really fit."

As a matter of interest, out of the 78 festival winners, is there one that stands out more than most?

"My first winner, Tourist Attraction, was huge," he says. "You have to remember that was a time when Ireland had only one or two winners. Three winners would have been a great week. So I came home from Cheltenham that year thinking I'd done it and, even if I never came again, I'd still done it. We didn't think we would ever have another Cheltenham horse.

Toursis Attraction and Mark Dwyer (white cap) jump the last upsides Ventana Canyon in the 1995 Supreme Novices'Credit: Healy Pat

"We were hoping we might have something for the bumper or the four-mile chase but we never dreamed what was going to happen. That first winner has to be the standout moment. Then, of course, Patrick riding winners at Cheltenham too. Your son riding a winner at Cheltenham is fantastic. Probably the feeling I had when Tourist Attraction won was the best one, though."

Times were indeed very different when Tourist Attraction won compared to the way they are now, 27 years later. Mullins thought he might never have another runner there but next month he reckons he could have as many as 55.

"Normally, we would end up with 55 runners or so. We would probably bring 60 over. You'd have one or two non-runners and we might bring one or two by mistake! Then I'd be standing on the gallop and I'd say, 'Where's so and so?' You look around and there's no sign of him so I'd ring home and tell them to get him on the box quick.

"The handicappers and the ones down the bottom of the ballot, you have to bring them in case they get in as well. There might be something I said two weeks before, 'Ah, I won't bring him.' Then, things change and you realise that horse had better run. We normally bring 60 and run about 55. Unfortunately, the likes of Chacun Pour Soi got a stone bruise on the morning of the race two years ago so you do end up having one or two over there who don't end up running. I'm hoping we will have the same sort of numbers running this year as the last few years."

It is surely the best team you have ever brought over?

"Is it? I don't know. I'm afraid to look. Someone said to me the other day that we had ten favourites or something like that. What I like about the whole thing is that we have bits of quality coming through in the novice ranks again and then the bumper horses as well. You're always worried if your bumper horses are not good but we have a really nice bunch this year."

Facile Vega, Redemption Day, Mercurey and James's Gate are just four that roll off the tongue. All unbeaten, all well above average and all making sure the future is very bright down Closutton way, in keeping with the present-day picture.

Yet Mullins is still worried about having a blowout at the big banquet next month. It is that fear of failure which makes him succeed over and over again.

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